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I am so swamped that I may have to pass on posting this time, but I plan to make a linky linky post! This is an excellent post. Unfortunately, white feminists have been making the analogy between gender and race since at least the 1970s (it was a major rhetoical device in a lot of that era's writing), and it's distressing that white feminists (or anybody else) is still doing it. I wish that those who make the analogy would stop, and I think your post is an excellent one for people who do not know the history and problems of the usage.

I think it's telling that it's only since the 1970s, when it became at least not a bald-faced lie to assert that of course racism and sexism were similar, but sexism was worse.

Somebody did the cross-comparison schtick in an amazingly offensive and faily way to me in my journal the other day and it took me several minutes to comprehend that no, really, that was actually the real point she was trying to make, I wasn't mis-reading it. Striving for a more equal world: do it less badly, please.

Your point about many stories not passing a racial equivalent of the Bechdel test is a very good one, and one I'll make an effort to keep in mind when I'm writing fiction myself in future.

Aughhghg. It keeps on popping up! In otherwise sensible peoples' stuff! And if it was going the other direction ("Here is a thing I have experienced, maybe this other thing I have experienced is like that, and I should empathise!") it wouldn't be so bad, but it's always "Hey, this thing I haven't experienced means you should agree with me!", I was just thinking, after reading someone else's post, that the Bechdel Test is really important because it highlights the 51% of humanity that is often objectified and ignored (especially in the genres I like). Then my brain said, "Yeah, it works for women's experiences but not necessarily for other under-represented characters because there's not as many people of colour as there are white people, unlike women and men."

WTF, brain?

Thanks for this post. I have kicked myself soundly in the white privilege.

You know that globally, white people, are, I dunno, making shit up now, 20%? I mean, it depends on what you mean by white, but. (If the world is six billion, and India and China together are three billion…)

But I totally sympathise with how one's brain sometimes thinks incredibly dumb things. Personally, I don't trust 'em.

That is a dose of special fail, right there. Yes. Thank you, Aunt Betty.

It could stand to be more special, really. I think across it pretty frequently.

For the record, movies and TV unquestionably do objectify people of colour in the exact way they objectify women, since roughly half of all people of colour are women.

Also there's this tendency in shows like SG-1 and SGA that non-white people get to be the less developed exotic aliens that run around in loin cloths, whereas white people get to be either the less developed fauxmedieval/renaissance fair aliens or the more advanced aliens. I mean, I don't remember there being a single black Ancient featured ever for example (though maybe I have forgotten and there was one somewhere)... but then they wear flowy white robes, and ascend into glowy white light, so it really would break the theme they have going there if any were black.

Yeah. SGA doesn't do so good with how they portray stone-age cultures. Stone Age means brown, right?

A+ post, would read and fist-pump and make thinky faces again.

Very well done. I think it's pure ego when writers try to make examples of expeiences they personally have never had in that way, but often many of us do it without thinking. You explain things very well, and anyone who still doesn't get it after reading thing is, in my opinion, just not paying attention. Maybe we should have our own version of the test to judge POC content in works. :)

Very, very good post.

Ooooh, the Betty test! I love it. *tries to think about how many of my shows pass it*

Dr. Who does.
Torchwood does, though marginally, and may do better soon.
Project Runway does.
Heroes does.

Of former fandoms:
SGA: Surprisingly, yes. I'm pretty sure Ronon and Teyla talk to one another about things other than their teammates.
SPN: AHAHAHAHA NO. Hello, fandom that I left because of your skanky race issues. You are made of fail.
BSG: I don't think so. Edward James Olmos is playing white, and the other COC are spread out among a lot of crackers. Not substantively, certainly.
Due South: Not that I recall.
Firefly: possibly not, which seems odd. Certainly not very substantively.
Sports Night: I also suspect not, oddly.
The West Wing: Again, the Hispanic actor in the lead here was playing white, lessening the chances by a lot. In seasons 7&8, with the Hispanic presidential candidate, yes. Before that? Not regularly or substantively, I don't think, at least not among the core ensemble cast. I'm willing to be corrected.

Fascinating - a lot of fandoms that DO pass Bechdel DON'T pass your test, but almost none vice versa.

My more recent shows are more likely to pass it - is TV getting better about this? Or am I getting more willing to dump shows that behave poorly in this and other regards?

Bizarrely, SG-1 (for all its skanky race issues) passes the Betty test too, since Teal'c and Bra'tac talk to each other, not to mention Teal'c talking to various other Jaffa of colour.

The theme of this IBARW is intersectionality, and I am trying to put together a post on this difficult topic, but this is what came out instead. I hope I can get the other out too.

I'll look forward to another post but this one is more than good enough for me. Thank you. :-)

It all boils down to none of us really knows what the other experiences until we go through it ourselves. I'll never know what it's like to be anything other than a (very) white female. People who claim to know another's experience are just blowing steam out their butts. And they're lacking either empathy, emotional intelligence or perhaps even situational awareness.

Sexism, racism, and other -isms are one person's way of invalidating the experience, or even existence, of another. And their all wrong. We as a society would be better off without them.

Well, I think we can use analogies, you know? "Hey, maybe that time I was trying to talk and all the dudes in the room couldn't hear me is kinda like what it might be like to a Black person in a room full of white people?" But going the other direction is DANGER, BAD ANALOGY, DO NOT DO THIS.

I love you *so* much. *delights in knowing someone who both gets it completely right and articulates it so very well*

Don't give me too much credit, I'm afraid my first impulse is always "White people, stop embarrassing me!" rather than "Must fight social injustice!"

This was gorgeous. It drives me nuts when this happens -- not just in feminism, but with gay rights activists and all sorts of equal rights groups. I want to hit them on the head sometimes. Great essay, and I'm going to be x-posting insanely.

It makes me nuts too, as evidenced by the fact I actually posted this.

Shouldn't it be "the series' dominant race" rather than "white", especially with the rise of anime outside Japan? Although then you run into even more problems given that there's hardly any people who aren't assumed to be Asian in anime, but hey.

I don't watch much anime, and don't really feel qualified to comment on it.

So we're going to use a checklist instead of looking at characterization or plot again?

Are you huffing glue? Either respond to stuff I actually wrote, or I'm going to conclude you're a spam-bot and delete your comments.

As a white feminist (linked here from elsewhere), I salute you, madame. I very rarely come across an LJ entry that makes me laugh and think at the same time.

What is the last work you remember that had more than one character of colour talking to each other about something other than the (white) protagonist?

The (few) shows I love that pass this test are all dramas that also specifically tackle racial issues within the narrative, either in an ongoing way ("The Wire"), with a single powerful story arc ("Friday Night Lights" S1), or because two of the main characters are women of colour ("The L Word").

Otherwise, I'm not sure anything else I watch passes, which is sad because I think I watch good quality TV.

Hey, I watch stuff that doesn't pass the Bechdel test. But better to be aware of the flaws, I think, then embrace a work uncritically.

Better, although rather more painful.

Excellent post. I know I used to do this very thing and it's very cringe-worthy just thinking about it. It's one of those things that makes perfect sense if you don't give it any deeper thought for even a second, you know?

Oh my god, yes. I can't remember specific instances, but I BURN WITH CERTAINTY that I was the one making other people facepalm, not too long ago. *writhes with embarrassment.*

Thank you for educating me on this, you are exactly right.

Here via metafandom

Thanks for this useful and insightful post. I'm thinking about some of my fandoms and how, when I want to explore issues around gender or ethnicity, I have to really look and scrape around. In that case, I usually fall back on Outrageous Fortune, which passes the Betty Test with flying colours. It's a NZ show, though, so it has virtually no fandom.

I don't think I've heard of it. (karenhealey assures me it's hilarious, though.)

Here via metafandom.

Oh, and in my dialect the phrase 'reverse racism' means 'please ban_set me', so don't even go there.
I think I love you.

You're very right about the results of mentally applying the Bechdel Test to more than women. Few of the examples I can think of off the top of my head are media I didn't read/watch for various specialized courses or at the recommendation of a professor. I'm sure some of the shows I watch do (I've seen a few listed in comments already), but I'm having trouble thinking of specific incidents. Mainstream movies are especially difficult--I've watched a lot of movies this summer, and the only one I can remember definitely passes the test would be the latest Mummy movie (which is problematic in a number of different ways).

Thanks for this post.

Comparing oppressions is tempting because it's easy to equate oppression with oppression, but the result is never pretty. At best, it's an unpleasant learning experience.

I've been around this block a few times, and I kinda have some expectations of a few of the common objections. But I've just run out of all patience with 'what about reverse racism!?!? This one time a Chinese man looked at me funny!'

Also, oh man, The Mummy. That's somewhere between tragic and hilarious.

Let the church say amen. (Amen.)

One thing, though -- it doesn't look like anyone has posted this in Charlie's blog so he can consider it. Do you mind if I do?

...The hell? This thing just made me prove I was a human being. I'm logged in. WTF?

I'm sorry, I have CAPTCHAs turned on because I was getting so much spam from registered ljs accounts, but you're right, I ought to turn it back off since this has been linked.

And sure, go ahead and link it-- I didn't quite have the nerve, because he seems, you know, very well intentioned! I just face-palmed really hard when I got to that bit.

I love the Betty test! And you know there could be a second, advanced-placement test: do two characters of color ever talk to each other about anything besides the white protagonist OR how tragically oppressed they are? Maybe they talk to each other about, I dunno, fighting crime, or saving the universe, or their cats? Or would that be too high a bar to set?

Try the last seasons of JAG. There were three black people, one of whom was a regular, and the others semi-regulars. Very rarely was race or oppression talked about by any of them. And there were black people in several eps, as guests.

That was off the top of my head.

I can think of a lot of books that pass this test, but far fewer tv shows, blockbuster movies, or other media properties.

I can think of at least a few Marvel comics that pass this (several of the X titles at various points, for example, and Heroes for Hire), as well as Lost and Star Trek: TNG and Deep Space Nine and, oddly given the number of issues it otherwise has, SGA. I'm having trouble thinking of many other shows that do, though. Most of the prime time dramas I can think of have only one non-white character in their whole cast, or if they have two, one of them is a more minor character and the two rarely interact. The X-Files would be a definate "no," as would, I'm pretty sure, all the various CSI shows. Supernatural's got very few recurring characters other than the Winchesters, so it fails pretty much any test for anyone talking to anyone other than the "Sam & Dean talk to each other" test.

Oz passes, Deadwood and Rome and the Tudors don't - though it's not really applicable in the case of the Tudors because Renaissance England was severely lacking in non-Europeans.

Then there's the question of comics titles like Black Panther: if the series is intentionally focussed on characters of color and has a predominantly non-white cast, does/should that alter the way you evaluate it?

Ironically, the original Battlestar Galactica actually passes this test, but the new one, going by other people's comments, doesn't seem to.

Comedy shows seem to do better on this count than dramas, but with the exceptions of the Simpsons & Futurama, there are pretty much no sitcoms I'm willing to watch, so I can't give specific examples. Oh, except for Ugly Betty.

Renaissance England was severely lacking in non-Europeans

Depends on what you mean by non-European, but wouldn't there have been dark-skinned people from North Africa and Asia Minor in London in the late Tudor era? I mean, hell, Pocahantas ended up in London too, didn't she?


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